Sophie Dugan (née Mycock) arrived at St Andrew’s College as a postgraduate student seeking a career change, but she left with far more than a Master of Strategic Public Relations from the University of Sydney. A year filled with “late night chats, pranks and snack expeditions” brought lifelong friendships and a support network that helped ground her in a new city. After a stint in the entertainment industry, Sophie has since built an international career and now works as Senior Legal Counsel at Spotify – the globally recognised company that has transformed the music sector. Reflecting on her time at Drew’s, Sophie shares why she chose a career path that allows her to feel aligned with the philosophy, principles and people of the organisations she works with.
Fresher Year: PG 2010 (postgraduate)
Degree/s: Bachelor of Laws (Honours) from the University of Queensland and Master of Strategic Public Relations from the University of Sydney
Occupation: Senior Legal Counsel, Spotify
Tell us a little bit about yourself! Where are you originally from, and where did you grow up?
I was born in Sydney but grew up in Queensland, on an alpaca farm in Eumundi. I always knew I wanted to return to Sydney but first moved to Brisbane where I completed a Bachelor of Laws from the University of Queensland and became a lawyer at the fresh age of 21. I practised as a lawyer in Brisbane for a short period of time before making the move to Sydney to explore a career outside of law. I decided to undertake a Master of Strategic Public Relations at the University of Sydney, focusing on corporate and political public relations.
What made you choose to come to St Andrew’s College? What about Andrew’s appealed to you the most?
I didn’t know anyone when I moved to Sydney, so – just like I’d done in Brisbane, where I initially resided on campus at The Women’s College – I figured that joining a college was my best bet to make friends. This time I wanted to experience a co-ed college. Drew’s was warm and welcoming, including to postgraduates (we’re not all weird!). Wayne Erickson, the Principal of Drew’s at the time, is also a legend.
What aspect of College did you enjoy most? Was it sport, performing arts, events, friends?
The events at Drew’s were awesome – I especially remember the Father’s Day Dinner with my dad, which ended in us all getting kebabs on King Street in the early morning hours – but what I enjoyed most was living in the cottage with my postgraduate mates. The year was filled with late night chats, pranks and snack expeditions (hello, fresher five). We became close friends and I moved out with one of them when we graduated at year end.
How do you feel your time at St Andrew’s influenced your post-college life?
Moving to a new place where you don’t know anyone can be daunting. Drew’s gave me a support system from day one in a new city, which springboarded me into the next chapter of my life. I gained friendships at Drew’s that continued long after my time at the college and created the foundation for my life in Sydney.
What intrigued you most about becoming a lawyer? What is it about the industry that you find most interesting?
Having just turned 17, I had no idea what I wanted to do when I finished high school. Law wasn’t an obvious choice – I studied maths, biology, chemistry and physics and did work placement with a veterinarian – but after realising a career in science or medicine wasn’t for me, I thought that I should still ‘use’ my good grades to enter a profession. I naively could visualise myself in a pencil skirt with a French twist in my hair walking into a large office building to start my day as a lawyer. As those in the tech sector tend to dress casually and my employer supports flexible work from anywhere, this couldn’t be further from how my day looks now.
Before your role as Senior Legal Counsel at Spotify, you worked at Nine Entertainment, von Muenster Solicitors and Attorneys, and McInnes Wilson Lawyers. How did these roles shape your career and help you get to where you are now?
I didn’t realise it at the time, but looking back, I can see how one role created a step for the next. At McInnes Wilson Lawyers in Brisbane, I clerked in Commercial Litigation, before transferring to Personal Injury where I got more client exposure and experience running my own files. I soon figured out that my interest lay elsewhere, which prompted my move to Sydney. After completing my Master’s degree, I worked at von Muenster Legal for four years, which combined my experience in law with my interest in the media and entertainment industry. I realised during this time that I wanted to go in-house, at which point I moved to work at Nine Entertainment for another four years across their television and digital businesses. It was at Nine, a national company headquartered locally, that my interest expanded to working for a global company headquartered internationally. This led to my role at Spotify, where I’ve worked for over seven years.
What is the most interesting part, for you, to work in the entertainment industry? Is there something specific that drew you to a company like Spotify?
Working in the media and entertainment industry can be interesting because what you’re transacting and protecting is often intangible, such as talent, reputation, intellectual property and data. How the intangible can be exploited and how laws regulate its exploitation is always evolving. However, what drew me to Spotify was not just that it’s a globally recognised company in the media and entertainment industry, but its philosophy, principles and people. The Swedish genesis of Spotify that remains central to its core, and how Spotify revolutionised an industry that was plagued by piracy (where the intangible – music – was exploited without permission), was what made the company compelling to me.
What are the best parts, and what are the more challenging parts about your role at Spotify?
Constant change is both one of the best and more challenging parts about my role at Spotify. To paraphrase what my manager once said: if you don’t like where you are, don’t worry it’ll likely change; and if you do like where you are, don’t get too comfortable. I value novelty and thrive when learning and having to figure out something new, so I welcome change as it keeps me moving forward. However, you have to stay on top of your game to keep up with the rapid pace of change both within a tech business as well as the legal landscape, particularly today in a world grappling with the advancement of AI against a backdrop of regulatory pressure.
After working in Australia for 12 years, you moved to Los Angeles, USA with the company. How is working in the States? How was the transition to the American corporate world, and do you plan to stay there for a while?
I joined Spotify in Sydney as their product and services legal counsel for the Asia Pacific region, including Australia, South East Asia, Japan, India and South Korea. After I became qualified to practise law in California, and chasing my next challenge of moving to Los Angeles, I raised with my manager that I was now an expanded legal resource and Spotify should consider utilising me in this capacity. My manager was supportive and facilitated the transition, even during the pandemic. I’m now a senior legal counsel at Spotify managing the legal function for video and audio podcast monetisation globally.
Working in the States can feel precarious, as employment is generally ‘at will’ (meaning you can be terminated at any time) and your ability to work tends to depend on your employer sponsoring you. Personally though, I find that my career feels more expansive in the States. Working in the States has also afforded me a better work life balance, as I’m closer in time zone to my employer’s main offices and most of my meetings are no longer throughout the night. As my employer has sponsored my green card and I’ve married an American citizen, I plan to remain in the States for a while, but am keeping the future open for a return to Australia.
Is there a ‘typical day’ for you? If so, what does it look like?
My day often starts early with video calls to stakeholders on the east coast of the States and in Europe, which continue throughout the day amongst pockets of ‘deep work’ and responding to infinite urgent emails and slacks. My work includes contract drafting and negotiation with enterprise organisations, networks and content creators for the supply of their content in which Spotify can deliver ads and monetize their video, as well as providing product counsel for the launch, maintenance and expansion of Spotify’s monetisation platforms, services and programs (such as the Spotify Partner Program and the Spotify Audience Network).
What would you say has been your biggest accomplishment since leaving St Andrew’s – within your career or otherwise?
I think my biggest career accomplishment since leaving Drew’s would be, as an internationally qualified lawyer, deciding to take and passing the California Bar Exam on first try in February 2020. This exam had one of the lowest overall pass rates in decades. Practising law in Los Angeles (despite never having visited the city) was a pipe dream of mine for a long time. I studied for the exam for less than 50 days, but it involved 7 days a week, 12+ hours a day of active study. I was incredibly proud when I received the results. Passing the exam changed the trajectory of my career.
What advice would you give to current students wanting to explore a career in the legal industry?
Take control of your career. Lawyers can end up specialising in a field without having made the conscious decision to do so (for example, this can be because it’s their final rotation as a law clerk, or their firm has available head count in that team). Stay curious and grab the reins of your legal career to steer it where you want it to go. I can only imagine how different my life would be had I not done this.
What does life look like outside of your work? How do you unwind and switch off?
As work can be mentally challenging, I enjoy staying fit and physically challenging myself to keep my body aligned with my brain. I listen to podcasts (obviously) and enjoy reading but need to encourage myself to read books, as so much of my day involves reading documents. Making quality time for my husband and friends is also important to me.
Looking ahead, what’s next for you? What are your goals for the year ahead?
As I’m presently on parental leave having just had my first baby, this is the first in a very long time when I’ve had to take a step back from my career. It has however been a refreshing perspective shift and reminder of what’s important in life, where productivity is not a measure of success and external validation is not the reward. I’m keeping an open mind as to how my career may evolve with a baby in tow.
Is there anything else you would like to share that hasn’t already been asked?
There’s a lot to do and figure out while you’re at university, but enjoy your time in college – it can be one of the best times of your life.